Segregated By Seedings

Segregated by Seedings

Another CPL is over, and what a CPL it was, filled with highs, lows, good points, bad points, easy victories, treble overtimes and network stepping hilarity. Some 34,000 tuned in to HLTV and another thousand were in attendance watched the climatic final on the huge double-sided projector screen as 6th seed Eyeballers defeated top seed, and 2003 CPL grand slam winners, Schroet Kommando to win the CPL 2004 Extreme World Championships.

Beneath this glossy exterior of the CPL final, where winners are catapulted into online celebdom and poor performances result in ceaseless player changes, there is a very critical error in format of the event. The format did not originate, and not does it permeate via the CPL alone, it is a critical error that exists in a vast number of gaming competitions, the CPL, perhaps unfortunately, just happens to be the easiest example of what it is applicable to the majority.

The purpose of gaming events is not to determine the best player/team in the world, but to give the most accurate and reliable account of the present standing amongst the world’s greatest players. Due to the use of a double elimination format and event seeding the majority of teams are inhibited from demonstrating their true potential. We are all well aware that online success attributes little to the typical consensus of a team’s abilities, unless they can equal their success in LAN competitions such teams quickly become known as ‘online heroes’ (which in itself is a euphemism for configgers). Why a LAN competition? Well the answer is simple, a LAN competition is fair, and everyone uses the same system, has the same ping, players the same game and has tournament configurations.

So why when event organisers go to so much effort to ensure that the competition is fair for all, do they then make the astounding error of giving the better sides a huge advantage over everyone else? How can a tournament be fair if the teams that organisers believe will win receive easier routes to do so?

The CPL explains “Seeding is designed to protect the integrity of the tournament by predicting to the best of the CPL's ability the outcome of specific matches.”

Firstly this explanation is flawed in the fact that the CPL is not predicting the outcome of specific matches rather than ensuring that the better teams play the lesser teams to win these specific matches. Also why would the CPL want to have a predictable event? Where’s the fun in predictability? Having the top teams playing each other earlier in the event would not damage the credibility or the integrity of the event, but more likely attract more interest in the opening days. The statement by the CPL above all but claims it’s better for them if the better known teams remain in the tournament for as long as possible, which to a lesser journalist may breathe new life into an aging debate over bias. A debate which will not be divulged upon here.

This is not an article aimed at degrading the CPL event in any way, the CPL as I’ve stated before is the main catalyst for the explosion of professionalism over the past few years, and it is the CPL that remains the most significant event for judging a teams’ ability. There are much fairer alternatives however to the way that they, and most others, run LAN competitions.

Example 1

There are several examples from CPL Summer 2004 which can be used to demonstrate the flaw in seeding. The Four-Kings Call of Duty team were seeded 6th at the CPL. Due to a bye and a no-show 4K knew they had finished in the top 16 without even playing a game. They went on to defeat Saviour Six, before losing to TAU and U5, finishing joint 9th. Given my TAG allegiances I know some might claim this is an attempt to discredit 4K’s placing, it isn’t, and 4K might or might not have been the 9th – 12th best team in the competition. Sadly it is impossible to know because they only played and won one map.

Example 2

Team AMD Gamer, Counter-Strike. TAG were originally seeded (fairly) at 32nd seed. Following a bye in their first game they were supposed to play 6th seed Eyeballers, an encounter which would have almost certainly relegated them to the lower bracket where they would have had to play some good American/European sides much earlier on in the competition. Fortunately due to some confusion they were given an absent 16th seed position and went on to defeat Surreal Skill and Reckless Theories ensuring them a top 16 finish. Then they played SK and NoA in successive games to be eliminated from the competition. If they had kept their original seed reaching the same position would have been much more difficult and required them to play many more games. This is evidence that seeding combined with double elimination can be more significant in determining a team’s final position than their abilities.

The Random Argument

Many people say that random results and upsets are what make competitions fun and exciting to watch. Single elimination for example, is more likely to produce and unlikely winner than any other format of competition (Virtus-Pro 13 – 9 SK). One bad performance by a team at any stage results in their elimination. There are an equal number of people that say it is more far important to follow a tournament that, once ended, has separated the teams fairly in terms of ability.

I believe in the latter, I do not want to watch a tournament where the winner “gets lucky”. I want to watch a tournament where the best team wins and the following 16 teams are determined by ability rather than fortune of seeding. Lets not forget that everyone has a different opinion on the ranking of the world’s top 10 teams, so much so that Gotfrag? to establish any sort of ranking has to question 20 people. The seeding of the CPL is done by much less with the overall decision being that of the CPL league commissioner.

The more you look at the format of CPL competitions the more random, unfair and harsh you realise it can be. The single elimination stage in particular can be brutal, especially for those that have travelled long distances and paid large amounts of money just to be eliminated by the 5th seeded team that did not qualify at a designed CPL qualifier.

It’s time for a change, something more progressive, something more exciting and something more challenging. It’s time to adapt to include group stages.

An Alternative Method

Day 1 - Preliminaries

After registration, separate the top 48 teams from the rest, they all receive a bye to the finals of the CPL tournament. Then divide the next 80 teams by skill into blocks of 16, so the 49th – 64th best team in block A, 65th to 80th best team in block B, 81st to 96th best team in block C and 97th to 112th in block D and 113th to 128th in Block E.

For the first round of the prelims the 16 teams in block E are drawn to play the 16 from block D at random. The winners of these then play the 16 from block C, the winners then play block B and then the winners of that play block A. After which there will be 16 qualified teams remaining.

Why go through this process? It gives a much fairer account for the teams that have travelled a long time to get to the competition, no longer will least skilled team at the event play the best non-qualified team (which can include some extremely top teams) and instead they will have an opportunity to prove themselves and the skill of their opponents will increase gradually. Thus they can be rated by their skill a lot easier. The teams that have spent weeks practicing in a LAN centre could well advance far, rather than play a top European team and be eliminated in their first game.

This method of preliminaries can be completed within a day of competition leaving just 64 teams for the 2nd day of events.

Day 2 – First Group Stage Games

Divide the remaining 64 teams into blocks of 16, and then draw one team at random from each block to form 16 separate groups of 4. The top 2 teams from each group advance into the next stage of the competition. This can be completed in one day with 32 teams remaining for the next stage of the competition.

Day 3 – 2nd Group Stage Games + 16 team Double Elimination

For the 2nd group stage games determine the groups by using the 1st Group A, 2nd Group B, 3rd Group C, 4th Group D = Group 1 and so forth. The 2nd group stage games can be completed by 5:00pm if with 100 computers we determine that 5 groups of 4 teams can be playing at any one team with each group taking 4 – 5 hours to complete.

If you aim to finish playing by 10pm each day that leaves plenty of time to play 4 ‘blocks’ of matches to whittle the remaining teams 16 teams down to 6, 2 in the upper bracket, 4 in the lower bracket.

Day 4 – 1st – 8th place games

Begin the games in the morning and finish all but the final games by midday, play the final at 5:00pm.

The above method would place a greater strain on the admins to organise, but would also ensure the CPL is a more positive performance for the majority of teams. Also no-shows under no circumstances would result in some teams finishing in a top 32 placing without playing a game.

Final Thoughts

Despite using CPL for example purposes many competitions can and are benefiting by adapting to group stages. Double group stages are an idea competition format with the intensity and excitement of the competition rising steadily throughout.

In these times of sponsorship explosions it is important to ensure that teams that struggle to gain financial support have the opportunity to benefit from it, and those teams that do spend far more time than their counterparts practicing, are rewarded with an equal rating in world stature.

- Myers

Comments

Antmoo
18:13 24/8/2004
nice article...

but will the cpl bother with the extra hassle of group stages just to make it more fair? [ Score: 1, informative | Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Tru
18:13 24/8/2004
he does it again! :D
gj [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
seik
18:28 24/8/2004
theres only tennis and snooker that are seeded that i can think of and there theres like 128 players with only 16-32 seeded, all competitions are s*** with their seedings because not every team should be seeded, eswc is closest to best, maybe top8 should be seeded imo, it gives a better idea of skill, because at the end of the day to win a tournament u've gotta beat the 2nd best team there [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Noah-
r4ngers
18:31 24/8/2004
nice idea, cant see the cpl changing tho [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
darkst0rm
the demonic radicals
18:47 24/8/2004
who in their right mind would write so much s***e about a fps game [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Myers
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
18:51 24/8/2004
Who in their right mind would read so much s***e about a fps game and then complain about it? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
DoZ
Anti-saviour of UKT
18:57 24/8/2004
Always have thought that seeding systems were flawed, disturbed always got s***ty routes through at lans even though the seedings were accurate, simply because of the way the seeding system works.

The suggested improvement are really good, and I'll have a good think tomorrow to see if I can see any way to better it! [ Score: 2, informative | Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
thereallongshot
19:03 24/8/2004
finally something worthwhile reading on here. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Fox
ClanNEW
19:06 24/8/2004
group stages are the way forward, imagine if the world cup was just single elimination [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
seik
19:08 24/8/2004
world cup is double elim?!?!?!

but yeah shud be group stages then single elim imo, if u lose ur out! but at least with group stages u get at least 3 games before ur sent packing [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
MonkH
19:09 24/8/2004
who in their right mind would write such a s*** comment about a good article about a good fps game which is funded each year with millions of £££ ??? :S [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
darkst0rm
the demonic radicals
19:13 24/8/2004
i didnt read it, just looking at it bores me [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Grunt
19:21 24/8/2004
nice article, seedings like they are done atm in any competition is bad but used properly like u have mentioned is good [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Eagle
19:24 24/8/2004
I agree with the solution, but saying that top level teams playing each other early on in such a big tournament isn't a bad thing i don't agree with. I doubt anyone would disagree with EYE and SK being the 2 best teams at the cpl and having them playing earlier on would have been wrong.

The world cup is terribly done :/ all big international tournaments have terrible structures (Well, Euro + World Cups certainly do) but they ain't gonna change it because of a column on some site! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
nicklearse
Missing In Action
19:34 24/8/2004
good points well put.

it'd be nice to see teams that 'cba' like NoA go home with no muhla ($$$) because they might actually have to beat some better teams early instead of riding along then trying if they get put to the lower bracket. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
pie
Black Death Warriors
19:38 24/8/2004
really good stuff! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
TicaL!
20:04 24/8/2004
[/quote]The world cup is terribly done [/quote]
How about no

No Seedings, I can dig it. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
muji
20:06 24/8/2004
Who in their right mind replaces a letter o in their name with a zero? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
ShekkyBoy
20:08 24/8/2004
The CPL tournament format for CS was recently changed, and practically due to Midway's article on gotFrag? Likewise, the money system in Valve was changed due to issues raised by shaGuar's article on the NoA website. Also the riot shield in CS was abandoned by Valve due to public outcry. I'd say there's a small but present chance this article will rouse the CPL. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
emfive
20:09 24/8/2004
Not sure on the first block idea, it needs a bit of tweaking but without taking a while to think about it I couldn't suggest the best way. Two group stages followed by double elimiation is probably fairest considering time allowed however if seeding is removed completly you could end up with a killer group (this happenned at ESWC in wc3 at least). [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
JaK
20:21 24/8/2004
I think group stages followed by single elimination works well. And it does work fine in the football, everyone gets a minimum amount of 3 games and their opponents for the first set of knockouts are determined by group placing. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Dustaz
Alert
21:06 24/8/2004
Nice idea but it seems a little impractical. Running 16 groups of 4 in a day would need a serious amount of organisation that might be even beyond the CPLs (considerable) ability.

Also, the system seems a little contradictory. If the system is set up to avoid an early exit for teams who have traveled a long way, yet if they lose their first game (albeit against closer opposition) they are out. No second chance against a MUCH weaker team than the first round. With DE, a team is guarenteed two matches and the second match is guarenteed to be a lot easier than the first one if you lose in the first round. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
aboms-sister
21:14 24/8/2004
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=euphemism

Just in case anyone needed it like me [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Weebull
21:21 24/8/2004
So you want a competition format where the all teams get a fair chance?
And where the winner is proven by skill rather than luck?
Where weaker teams don't just get made to play stronger teams and lose immediately?
Where a teams final position is much more representative of their skill?

Pardon me for being stupid, but what you want is a league. Go look it up, it's been done before.

That's how leagues work, they represent overall skill of the teams that take part. The best team finishes first, the second best finishes 2nd, and so on. No lucky result decides the entire thing.

Cups aren't supposed to show the most skilful. They're designed to cause upsets to add excitement. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Myers
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
21:41 24/8/2004
Weebull, see; The Random Argument.

aboms, you don't know what euphemism means? :)

Are you illiterate? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Myers
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
21:42 24/8/2004
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=illiterate [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
afen
21:48 24/8/2004
weebull. the whole point of a tournament is that the best team wins. if you dont agree to that then you are retarded. this gives that more of a chance of happening rather than some fluke. what myers has presented here beats the current tounaments seedings system hands down and gives new team an actually chance rather than paying a grand to get to a comp and stay there then being knocked out in the first round by a top team. this also makes it a better spectator sport.

good job Richard 'Murdering Your Everlasting Rhetorical Soul' Millington. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
nicklearse
Missing In Action
21:50 24/8/2004
A league doesnt happen all in a few days ... you cant compare imo [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
aboms-sister
22:02 24/8/2004
No I'm a scientist [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
aboms-sister
22:03 24/8/2004
and why the hell would I really care about poly-syllabic words that make you sound like a dickhead? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
fsk
twisted Reality
22:16 24/8/2004
u need a group stage really. top 2/3 to go thru with 1 seed per group, sorted. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
b0sH
twisted Reality
22:23 24/8/2004
Didn't ESWC enact this just on a smaller scale with the whole block thing.
Nicely thought out and shud be looked at more carefully to see if there are definate improvements that need to be made. May even be taken seriously with the new CPL commisioner blokey in place. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
darkst0rm
the demonic radicals
22:56 24/8/2004
i agree with aboms [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Weebull
23:05 24/8/2004
Myers, I don't see your point? You say you don't like cups because they produce upsets? Don't watch cups then, watch leagues. Don't go telling us how we should change the entire format of the cup system.
weebull. the whole point of a tournament is that the best team wins. if you dont agree to that then you are retarded
Were Porto the best football team in Europe last year? Are EYE really the best CS team in the world?

Yes or no?
A league doesnt happen all in a few days ... you cant compare imo
No, but that's what Myers seems to theoretically want, even though it's not possible. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
georgeda
23:40 24/8/2004
post this on gotfrag under the name of shaguar and see what the cpl do :P [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
havox
23:54 24/8/2004
really interesting thoughts... but i think you made 2 faults:

1. "Having the top teams playing each other earlier in the event would not damage the credibility or the integrity of the event, but more likely attract more interest in the opening days."
Wtf? Everybody will laugh about an event where top teams face each other in the first rounds, sorry. You know how much money is involved in eSport and the tournaments... so like you mentioned later in the double-eli text: the best teams should end up on the best places...

2. the most important seeding fault at CPL US is, that they aren't able to do fair seeds. everybody knows that the attending us-teams aren't as strong as the eu teams and the cpl often tried to give their "better" teams easy seeds... but maybe this was luck ;)

anyway, great thought by myers - again! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
DanceMag`
00:02 25/8/2004
aboms-sister, euphemism is not a very complicated word, god i know some swedes (bless them) that know what that means [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Byatt
00:26 25/8/2004
I think it's an interesting proposal, but I'd say that seedings are really only hurting clans not in the top 10 - this isn't affecting the winners of competitions very often, because the double elimination format gives them enough protection to show their talent.

I think the balance between excitement and letting the best team win is still found to be best in a double elim system. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
alexxxx
00:30 25/8/2004
s*** article [ Score: -1, pointless | Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
funky
00:37 25/8/2004
Very nice article, I'd say it'll be a while till something as sensible as this is implemented though =/ [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Mango
01:36 25/8/2004
It sounds to me like a good idea and I think the points that you put across, drawing from my rather limted tournament experience, are perfectly valid.

The way top seeded teams play the lowest seeded teams does seem rather unfair, to travel so many miles to play one match, and get obliterated, isn't fun for anyone, including spectators.

Perhaps with your ES.LTD organisation you could organise a tournament that takes into consideration the points you present in this articel?

Nice work, still waiting for the concluding part of your CPL diary though. ;-] [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
iku
02:21 25/8/2004
Do I get this wrong are do you propose to rate the teams in the Preliminaries by skill? Isn't that seeding too? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think for the teams nothing really changes cause their tournament outcome still depends on their Preliminaries seed. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
fsk
twisted Reality
03:07 25/8/2004
AH, myers's idea is awesome weebull, I dont think u realise. Rather than the lower teams just being drawn to SK, they get a chance to play thru the other teams of their similar skill level / situation, in order to get to the top teams on the 2nd day. its like promotion / elimination.

Would be great to see this, it would be much more exiciting, and upsets can still happen in the 2nd day of the even.

Sort this out myers with ES.LTD and try it out! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
rekkiem
ForsakeN
03:09 25/8/2004
darkst0rm u really are a waste of f***ing space, got nothing constructive to say then f*** off buddy, i don't think anyone appreciates you or your thoughts.


a few fair points myers, but again can't see the seepeehell goin for it as it would ultimately mean more organising. needs testin! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
fullT
03:42 25/8/2004
i agree with the idea of at least one group stage b4 double eliminations at cpl, and some kind of different format to single elimination pre-lims.
it does suck to see teams 'bye' their way into the rankings [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
fullT
03:50 25/8/2004
link over to gotfrag see what the yanks say? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
MaCcA^
04:06 25/8/2004
is the world cup not a cup? that has group stages and only the best teams get through it... i think thats what myers is aiming for weebull not a league. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
MaCcA^
04:06 25/8/2004
randomness is added by random draws on who goes into which group! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
aboms-sister
08:21 25/8/2004
Dancemag the point is I didnt, and really couldnt care less either. But please carry on being a prick by all means :) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Valar`
The Anti-DoZ
09:07 25/8/2004
err, if the whole point of a tournament is for the best team to win (and I apologise for the football analogy - http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=analogy <3 weebull) then why do you get people like wycombe wanderers getting through to the semi-finals of the fa cup? (that was 2000/1 season btw)

a tournament is not about seperating the best from the rest, it's about who's best on the day. it's about unpredictability. it's about excitement where anything can and will happen. so what if SK get knocked out in the first round?

i also don't see the point in having a group stage then double elimination. double elimination is only used to people don't make all the effort to attend then only play one game before they pack up and leave!

to seperate the men from the boys you need a league. to gain excitement and garner interest you need a tournament. the cpl belongs firmly to the latter (despite having the word league in its name, yet not actually being or having a league! :/ ) as i'm sure you'd agree, a league consisting of several divisions of the top 20 teams from around the world is unlikely at best given the current level of sponsorship. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Valar`
The Anti-DoZ
09:08 25/8/2004
fs -20 :( [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Rei
09:42 25/8/2004
imo it should be like the World + the Euro cups in football. Draw the groups out of a hat of confirmed attendee's. Then the top 2 from each group advance to the knockout stages. Seedings should still be there, but only as a guide provided by the CPL as to who they tip to win. The best way to get this to happen would surely be to get a bookmakers involved with the event. I myself work in a bookies and I work with odds and seedings every day. Seedings should not be used to advance teams, or determine who plays who, the seedings should be allowed to change throughout the tournament regarding teams results before and during the tournament i.e. 4K placed 16th at the start, due to a poor performance at the CPL they drop according to how many points they now have, based on who they have beaten in the past, their past achievements and other competitions they have won. Perhaps it is time for more colaboration between the large gaming competitions? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
darkst0rm
the demonic radicals
10:19 25/8/2004
all hail king rekkiem [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
w0rm
10:20 25/8/2004
don't they have a similar thing for Wimbledon? They disregard other world tennish championships and go on what a team did in Wimbledon alone. Or something like that :P [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
fsk
twisted Reality
11:49 25/8/2004
shaddap paul french! and quit confusing everyone [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Valar`
The Anti-DoZ
12:01 25/8/2004
simplified version for edwin matthews.

yes myers.

x [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Weebull
12:35 25/8/2004
:D [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Weebull
12:47 25/8/2004
Despite being somewhat out of it when I posted all that, my point still stands. Leagues are what show you the best team over all of a certain period, not cups. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
DArtagnan
Infinity-eSports
12:59 25/8/2004
Think i once talked to you about the seeding situation, where by if you're a top seed you're guranteed to get to the same position as before, but at the time you just told me that if a team wants a better seed they need to beat the better seeded teams and that it was fair.
Nice to see you've changed your mind. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
neill
13:02 25/8/2004
see no reason not to have group stages, good idea [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
ins
13:27 25/8/2004
sounds like a good idea, probaly already said but seeing as you've started running you're own things you could use this system to promote its potential to the rest of the world :) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Rav0r
Croydon
13:43 25/8/2004
A round robin will show the best sides. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Valar`
The Anti-DoZ
14:07 25/8/2004
That's a group stage rav0r :) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Rav0r
Croydon
18:33 25/8/2004
no i mean the entire comp, smile :))) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Weebull
04:58 26/8/2004
That's a league rav0r :) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Rav0r
Croydon
12:21 27/8/2004
Yeah and thats a round robin weebull matey =))))) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
.blank
23:59 9/10/2004
Another possible alternative would be to use a swiss tournament format (as used in chess tournaments), where teams are initially seeded :D , play a game, and then get pooled by their cummulative score. In the next round teams in the same pool play eachother (seeded by 1st round score maybe), and so forth for 5 or 6 rounds (only allowed to play a team once).
This method leads to teams playing others of a similar standard, determining rank using a kind of quicksort algorithm.

The main problem with this is that 64 teams would be too many to try this with as 192 games would be needed (6 rounds), but I'm sure there are valid ways to lower the number of teams for the "finals". [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
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